"Leadership is a practice...not a position..." - a conversation with Hayley Lever

When I told Hayley Lever that she's probably had one of the biggest influences on how I conduct myself in the world of sport, physical activity, leadership, and work, I meant it. The opportunities I have had to listen to her speak, observe her behaviours and engage with members of her team has shaped how I think about leadership and creating environments where people can thrive.

Now, as Hayley has recently published her first book on leadership 'Leading from the balcony', I finally had the chance to sit down with her and explore the ideas that have guided her career and her work as one of the leaders of 'Greater Manchester Moving' (GM Moving) for the past eight years.

Finding Purpose Through People

Hayley's journey began in Coventry, where teachers, youth workers, and community leaders opened possibilities she never knew existed. "It's absolutely down to key individuals at certain sliding doors moments in my life," she explains. These were people who taught her about sport; but they were also people who unlocked something within her that wasn't inevitable given her background.

That experience planted the seeds for everything that followed—thirty years of work in physical activity and sport development, increasingly focused on addressing inactivity and inequalities. It forged a deep understanding of how powerful it is when people create the right conditions for others to thrive.

The Challenge of Being Taken Seriously

Like many of us who work in sport and physical activity, Hayley has navigated the tension between passion and professionalism. In the early 2000s, there was significant work done to professionalise sports development—to give it credibility and gravity. That often meant cultural assimilation: wearing suits to meetings with the County Council, carrying shoes across town to change into for different contexts, conforming to traditional workplace norms.

But something shifted when Rachel Allen, working in the NHS team alongside Hayley, got frustrated with having to change from her trainers into heels for meetings. She wrote a blog about it. That blog landed on the Mayor's desk. Andy Burnham then sent out a mandate to the entire organisation: you're allowed to wear trainers to work if it helps you to be active during the work day.

This became the Active Soles movement—a microcosm of what movement building actually looks like. It started with resistance, evolved into a case for change, and rippled out in ways that were impossible to track.

Redefining Leadership

For Hayley, leadership isn't about hierarchy or positional power. She quotes Brené Brown's definition: "I define a leader as anyone who takes responsibility for finding the potential in people and processes and who has the courage to develop that potential."

This understanding is fundamental to the work. "If you're trying to grow a movement for movement, then you need to unlock contribution, participation, leadership in every bit of our system, in every community," she explains. "Leadership is a trait in every single person." Her father, a lorry driver who never held a formal leadership role, still teaches her about leadership through their conversations.

But recognising that everyone can lead means creating the conditions where people feel safe to step into that role. Hayley recalls a pivotal moment from her school days when her PE teacher and a youth worker pulled her into the office after she got into trouble. They didn't just discipline her—they held her to account because they knew she could do better. "It's not about living in fear or threats," she says. "It's about knowing that you are valued and supported as an individual but that you will be taken to task when you don't meet expectations."

The 'Daily Act of Resistance'

Creating meaningful change requires challenging entrenched norms, and that's exhausting work. When Greater Manchester Moving was in its early stages, there was pressure to produce traditional business cases and PRINCE2 project plans. But early evaluation work produced something different: pointers for leadership practice, including the powerful phrase "laying the road as we travel together."

These pointers became tools to resist the pressure to conform. "The evidence says we've got to lay the road as we travel together," Hayley explains. "So let's make that a principle and stop telling me to write a PRINCE2 project plan, because that will just get us what we've always got."

This approach extends to how the organisation she leads works with communities. Majid Hussain, a community leader in Gorton, once challenged a visiting funder about the burden of reporting requirements. His message was clear: "Don't try to make us more like you." That phrase became a rallying cry for a different way of working—one that values organic, human, relational approaches rather than forcing communities into systems designed to relieve institutional anxieties.

But this work takes its toll. "It's a daily act of resistance," Hayley admits. "There have been times where I've just thought, I don't know if I've got it in me to keep doing this. It would just be easier to go with the flow than to go against the grain sometimes."

The Importance of Integrity

One of the most striking examples of how Hayley's leadership is supported came from her relationship with her chair, Mike. Her key performance indicator wasn't about traditional metrics—it was about "****** annoying integrity." It's a brilliant phrase that captures something essential: the more you live out your values in practice, the closer you get to meaningful change. Being tenacious with your integrity means people can't work around things or hedge their commitments—they have to keep dismantling barriers and cutting through.

But integrity also means being honest about limitations. Hayley has learned to tell people explicitly when she probably won't be able to go as far as they'd like, with something because of the constraints that sometimes limit the scope on innovation. "There's something about being honest with people about that...," she says. "I'm probably not going to be able to go as far as you want with this..., but I'm going to try anyway."

Creating the Conditions for Others

Perhaps the most powerful insight Hayley offered is about the nested nature of leadership. She recognises that her ability to lead authentically has been enabled by the environment created by others— who provided the protection and inspiration to work differently.

"I don't think I could have cultivated my own leadership in the last eight years without the 'air cover' of the Mayor, my chair and other key people," Hayley reflected. Prompting me to suggest that this supportive system enabled her to create similar conditions for her team, who in turn create those conditions for the communities they serve.

It reminded me that we can't simply tell people to "be better leaders" whilst they are still constrained with processes, governance structures, power dynamics and cultural norms that work against those aspirations.

Impactful, authentic leadership doesn't happen in isolation—it either flourishes or withers within environments that either enable or constrain it.

The Vulnerability of Visibility

Writing and publishing a book has been an act of courage for Hayley. She admitted to hesitating many times before clicking publish on blogs over the years, fearing that by making statements about what she values and believes in might leave her vulnerable to attack if she doesn't live up to those ideals at any point. "If I've published something that describes the world I want to see and how I want to be, I have to sit with that discomfort of just knowing that I am going to fail," she admits.

But making things explicit and visible serves a purpose beyond sharing ideas—it creates accountability. When you're known for doing things differently, when communities hold you to account for the principles you espouse, "you've got to be in that wholeheartedly. You're either all in with that and you hold yourself to account for it every day, or you probably quit and go and get an easier job."

Leadership as Practice

Throughout our conversation, what strikes me most is Hayley's understanding that leadership is a practice, not a destination. It's something you aspire to, something you're always trying to be better at. It's a process riddled with mistakes and missteps, and that's actually part of the journey.

"Leadership happens in micro moments of every day in conversations," she says. "That is what we're trying to nurture and grow."

This isn't about having all the answers or never making mistakes. It's about creating cultures where people can speak truth to power, where difficult conversations happen with candour and care, where people feel valued enough to challenge norms and contribute their full selves to the work.

As Hayley works on her second book, I'm grateful she overcame her resistance to make this first one a reality. For anyone working in sport, physical activity, coaching, or any field where you're trying to create environments where people can thrive, this conversation offers both inspiration and practical wisdom about what authentic leadership really requires.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Reflections

I took a lot away from this discussion...I'm really grateful to Hayley for taking the time to have this conversation with me. I'm reflecting how present I am in those 'micro-moments' and whether I am living up to my own ideals, especially when the pressure is on. I also reflect on how open and vulnerable I am as a coach. Do I offer my weaknesses, uncertainties or vulnerabilities to those I work to support or am I too often retreating behind a façade of being 'all knowing'. - That's a tough habit to break....especially when that façade has been your shield for shield for such a long time.

Finally, I'm left thinking about how I have lost sight of one of my most prized approaches... that of building an environment where others recognise their role to lead and take steps to practice their own leadership abilities.

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The book is available on Amazon and the proceeds with go towards supporting the work of GM Moving within Greater Manchester - do your self a favour and buy one for yourself for Christmas and buy 2 more for people you know who would value it.

What is your learning and development ‘Prosecco moment’?

I travelled down to London a few weeks ago to do some professional development with Nick Shackleton-Jones.

For those who don't know, Nick is a learning and development specialist who has worked in a whole array of different fields. Initially a psychology lecturer, he's worked for major firms including Deloitte (as chief learning officer) and BP, among others. He now runs his own consultancy, Shackleton Consulting.

His book, "How People Learn," presents a powerful alternative position on learning and how it needs to radically change. Many of his positions align very closely with mine. We share very similar views on how we need to transform learning to enable human beings to thrive in whatever roles they have.

One of the key concepts Nick discusses is the "Affective Context Model." The summary of this model is remarkably similar to the underlying thesis of ecological dynamics: the context in which you're in provides a crucial aspect of why somebody would be motivated to learn. In simpler terms, the problem you're trying to solve and the situation you're in defines what you learn.

Instead of learning something abstract that might benefit you in the future—what we might call "just in case" learning—you engage in "just in time" learning. You learn as you go, focusing on things that are genuinely meaningful and matter to you.

Yesterday we explored the "5Di framework" - This framework outlines the approach you would take to develop a learning framework for an organisation, whether you're a consultant or an internal L&D business partner helping with design.

The fascinating day began with a glass of prosecco. Why? It wasn't just for enjoyment (though that was a nice bonus). Nick explained it through the peak-end hypothesis, which describes how people remember experiences. If you go on holiday, for example, you tend to remember the peak moments—the most memorable moments—and the end.

So we began with a toast towards improving learning for everybody. Rather than sitting down and watching PowerPoint slides, we stood for about an hour, talking to each other. Nick had done preparatory work, asking us about the things we were interested in and keen to know more about. He put these topics on the board and asked, "Which are the most interesting to you?" We discussed those topics.

From the start, he made the experience relevant, meaningful, and focused on the things that mattered to us. We were immediately engaged, standing in a room with prosecco, toasting and discussing what we wanted to talk about.

The key takeaway for me wasn't necessarily the content of what we discussed, but the fact that Nick had taken the time in designing a learning experience to create a hook—a memorable moment that would ensure whatever we talked about would stay with us.

We discussed how so many learning experiences are designed to deliver content to people and how most of this ‘information transfer’ is actually forgotten as quickly as it is transmitted. Nick spoke of researchers like Hermman Ebbinghaus and Eric Mazur, who have demonstrated that the vast majority of learning experiences are actually quite meaningless.

Mazur, a Harvard physicist, apparently concluded that traditional lecturing was actually unethical. He determined that as a learning modality, lecturing was doing students no good whatsoever and might even be harming their future learning prospects. It was neither enjoyable nor beneficial.

This finding resonates with research by Donald Clark, who notes that "lectures as a teaching method have never been subject to proper evaluation... they persist through historical inertia" (Clark, 2010).

I found this discussion fascinating because it has parallels to the sports world. I've been advocating for quite some time—lobbying, if you like—for a change in how we provide sports experiences for young people. I've been passionately campaigning for "ditching the drills."

My reasoning isn't just that coaches need to do things differently because it's "better" or because it develops more skills. Rather, I believe that meaningful experiences enrich people's lives and bring them joy. They have value that makes people want to pursue a life filled with physical activity—which brings numerous benefits socially, emotionally, mentally, and physically.

To deliver physical activity in a way that isn't meaningful or appealing seems ethically or morally questionable.

If there is evidence, however incomplete, suggesting that providing sports experiences in a meaningful, memorable, and enjoyable way would give people a sense of purpose and value, and we knew it would at the very least do no harm in terms of development—then we would opt for that, wouldn't we? Why continue using models that don't provide that framework?

This aligns with research by Joan Duda, who found that "creating a climate that emphasises personal progress and effort rather than comparison with others leads to greater enjoyment, sustained participation, and ultimately better performance".

One of the big points Jones made about learning was how many organisations and leaders think they know what learning and development is, largely because their own experiences were of teaching in a classroom. They have an unconscious view that learning involves delivering some kind of course.

The solution to most problems presented by a workforce with training needs—after conducting a training needs analysis—would be to produce content, assuming this content will solve their problems.

Nick challenges this approach, arguing that people don't need content delivered to them. What they need are things that help them do their job—resources or experiences. The reason experiences are important is that when people do things practically, when they live them and feel them, they develop a deeper knowledge that stays with them and is more useful to them.

This approach helps people develop skill as opposed to just knowledge. We know that knowledge without context—or learning something out of context—needs to be relearnt in context. That's why the vast majority of learning and development interventions fail; they don't transfer to the real world. They're not momentary, not in the moment, not related to the challenge the person faces, and therefore don't have meaning. More often than not, they're forced—"You've got to do this. It's compliance. It's mandatory."

As David Perkins notes in his work on "learning that matters," there's a fundamental problem with learning that doesn't connect to real-world challenges: "A chief enemy of transfer and application is inert knowledge—knowledge that sits in the mind but isn't activated in situations where it would be useful" (Perkins, 2009).

The 5Di framework stands for Define, Discover, Design, Develop, Deploy, and Iterate. The framework begins by considering the recipient—who the learner is and in some cases, who they're going to engage with. Then you work backwards through a discovery process to understand their needs and real-world challenges. Finally, you design experiences and resources that will meet those particular challenges.

The Challenge of Coach Development

It's not surprising that when I talk to clients and ask them to assess how many of their coach development workforce they consider to be really good or exceptional, the number is often very small. The vast majority are in the middle, considered okay, and there's a decent number considered below standard.

This shouldn't surprise us because these people aren't given much support to develop. The idea of putting together frameworks is to create experiences and moments that people will find attractive, meaningful, and useful in their day-to-day work.

Part of the challenge is understanding what their day-to-day challenges are and what issues they face. Many clients don't have enough information about what these people are experiencing and need—their discovery phase is lacking. Going through that process might be challenging, but it's extremely valuable because anything difficult typically is. It provides real clarity about who you're serving and what you're trying to support them with.

‘Re-hiring’ - continuous onboarding

One idea that emerged from the sessions was having an annual or bi-annual experience where the workforce is brought together in what was called a "re-hiring." This is essentially re-engaging, reconnecting, and re-onboarding employees.

The idea is that onboarding isn't just something that happens at the start—it's continuous.

New priorities emerge, business plans change, and new opportunities are created. You need to rebuild your organisation and reconnect your workforce with the new direction.

The Future: Handmade Pottery

We discussed the future and the role AI would play in learning and development. There was a lot of concern in the room that L&D was rapidly becoming obsolete and could be replaced by AI ‘bots’.

As anantidote to the concern, Nick used a wonderful phrase: we're moving towards "handmade pottery." If you're in the learning and development space just churning out content and believe passive content delivery with no relationship to context is the future, that's not going to last much longer. People will look for cheaper alternatives.

But if you're providing meaningful, contextualised, emotion-rich experiences for people, the future is very bright.

AI can augment and support. It's there for immediate, on-demand performance needs ("How do I submit my expenses? Etc)

But humans will also need and want deeper, richer human connection and engagement, those things will only be enhanced by people creating experiences for each other—either digitally because of distance or ideally in a physical space where we come together.

This "handmade pottery" idea suggests we need to become extremely skilled at providing experiential learning models because that's what humans will seek out.

What Is Your Prosecco Moment?

It was a fascinating day with many takeaways that I'll be bringing to my clients over the coming months and years. The main question I'll be asking myself is: "What is your prosecco moment?" How will I design prosecco moments into learning experiences?

By the way, if you want to join my learning community, ‘The Guild’, we come together once a month via Zoom (since people are from all over the world). You can join through the website.